Who is "limiting" the discussion to the brain? r109 is quick to dismiss r108 as a "troll". In a story for Sundays editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting. So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. The Harrises moved away almost immediately. He was enrolled in a program for juvenile offenders run by the county court, he was taken to a psychiatrist and given both therapy and medication. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. As a literature teacher, symbolism is not lost on me. Sue (as both she and her son share the same surname, Im going to refer to them by their first names for the sake of clarity) begins by emphasizing that she and her husband, Tom, truly had no idea what Dylan was planning. I'm not a troll anonymous. Then Oprah asked if they ever reached out to them or spoke to their parents - not one of them had done a thing. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". There are several bags on the floor, including a large maroon one. Sue is from a prominent Jewish community . Eric: "Yea Everyone I love, I'm really sorry about all this. As much as it sucked I knew deep down that it was just a stage and that it wasn't real. Ken Caryl Middle, where he met Dylan Klebold. . I got picked on a lot and dealt with a lot of shit from the "jocks" and the "cool kids." What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. These two need to be gutted and hung out for the vultures. Klebold attended the high . There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. I certainly understand how they feel. I think those that readily (and outrightly) blame the parents are inclined to do so as to perpetuate some aspect of control, otherwise the shear nature of the case becomes too frightening. Thats Something that stands out about Dylan anyway, the Lack of Emotion regarding his parents. Forum Reputation : 52. Family & Personal Life. There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). Sue had no idea it was a life-and-death situation. If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters. They are particularly good at it. When I was 16 my parents sure as hell would have known if I had firearms in my possession or were building pipe bombs anywhere near our home. The parents of Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold have often been portrayed as disengaged from the lives of their sons and unaware of the dark paths lying ahead. however, in her book, sue shared a diary entry she wrote of an incident in the months before the massacre: 1/11/99 This long, hard day is over. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. They do not have a moral center that can be reached. You're far too stupid to ever see that though. Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. Now everybody expects the schools to fix everything for them. The parents of Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, remained in seclusion Wednesday as a global media horde encamped at their houses after the murderous rampage Tuesday at Columbine High School. (Stephanie . As she says, The rest of the world could explain away what he had done: either he was born evil a bad seed or hed been raised without moral guidance. Was Tom there for him when he needed him? Everyone ones there to be one systemic cause, one thing that failed, to point to and say "there, that's why this happened." His mom was trying to find the best fit for him, but I suspect it ended up being more difficult for him), and both enjoyed violent video games. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. Good-bye. As a reporter scribbled, Hooker reconsidered. Firstly, like everyone else he didn't pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his 'best friend.'. ", [quote]Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". "some manipulate, like my parents.". I do find it odd that you'd characterise your 17 year old son as your 'best friend' anyway, you're his father. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. Eric David Harris and Dylan Bennet Klebold were a pair of school shooters, bombers, and mass murderers responsible for the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School Massacre in Columbine, Colorado, which killed thirteen people and wounded 21 others before ending with both of their suicides. i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. He went to his senior prom and based on his journal had a wonderful time, and was invested in his future to such an extent that he chose a college and made a trip out to Arizona to look at dorm rooms with his father. Focus on the mental. Dylan adds that they can have his things as well. "Doctors" can profit, too, financially, when their names are attached to certain "studies.". I wanted an apology. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. Making intentions known ahead of time? These things outweighed their concerns about him. I don't think the parents are to blame and never had, but it's a lot easier hating these two kids and their parents then hating the society that produced them. I think maybe his outlook grew worse over time. . I was in high school at the time. When I moved out on my own I gained the privacy afforded to adults. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit. I'm sorry, all right. here are some tidbits that might help you with the question. They made sure to know who their kids were spending time with, and made sure they knew and felt that they were loved. In 1997 Wayne Harris, Eric's father, started logging all of his son's problems. Dylan Bennet Klebold Born: 9-11-1981 6 feet 2.5 inches tall, 143 lbs. Harris and Klebold met at Ken Caryl Middle School during their seventh grade year. Denver area Jews, meanwhile, have expressed discomfort at the emphasis being paid to Klebold's alleged Jewishness. I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Sunday, April 25, 1999; Page A8. In them, its obvious to see how his anger and rage turned from being directed toward himself to directed toward others. Sue Klebold Recalls What Her Son Dylan Was Like at Home: Part 2. Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. Shocking crime scene photos explode the myths and reveal shocking details! These people do have emotions. I seem to remember them being called "fag.". LITTLETON, Colo., April 24 - The parents of Dylan Klebold, one of the teenage shooters in the Columbine High School massacre, said goodbye to their dead son . Under different circumstances it would've been a lot different. Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? Posted 3 years ago Teachers have no training in mental disorders or warning signs. if anyone can correct or find the sources for me that would be greatly appreciated! Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, on April 9, 1981. We relate. But she focuses greatly on the lead-up to that day, hoping to shed light on what happened to her son in order to help someone else see signs in their own child while they still have a chance to intervene. It's up to me what I do with it. By Eun Kyung Kim. It just seems all a bit odd. We've hardly seen him & attempts to engage him have been futile. R77, there are people who don't have feelings. OSHKOSH, Wis. (WBAY) - A special event was held in Oshkosh Tuesday afternoon, where the mother Dylan Klebold, one of the two gunmen responsible for the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado . If that;s the case, why did he have so many friends? In general: School shootings happen most at high schools, with a student at the school acting alone as the shooter. . Psycrotrenic, charter member of the International Reb&Vodka fan club. The people who run gifted programs are often special ed teachers who just got assigned that particular duty, and have the attitude that being smart is its own reward. Sue Klebold. The Klebolds stayed, at least as of 2004. I say this as a person who worked as an assistant to special needs kids for years. Maybe I'm just feeling too knowledgeable having been re-reading Steve Pinker's "How The Mind Works" recently. . Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. I think we can value Sue's words more than Dylan's words in this one. I know my mom and dad will be just like.. just fucking shocked beyond belief. If there is a hell, they are there, burning. A Further Examination: Sue Klebold's case study of her son, Dylan Klebold. Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. How can that not bother you? It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. There was a documentary on Netflix or somewhere in which she t. I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. Brookscolumn did not say when and where the interview took place. Tom is a geophysicist, Sue works with handicapped people. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. No scientist knows this absolutely. additionally, dylan was definitely naturally shy. (21 at the time). Eric . At the beginning, when he writes about the good things in his life, he mentions his parents. He had friends, but felt as if he were a burden; he wanted love, but the girl he was interested in didnt know he existed. Klebold and Dylan's father, Tom, endured not only . I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. I don't believe I've said anything about gun control, of which this country has far too little of. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. Im going to start by reviewing what Bartol & Bartol (2017) have to say about school shooters (and shootings) as a group, though they also state there is no single school shooter profile. Dylan takes the camera then and begins filming Eric. It didn't seem to slow down the ordinary media train. Great job! I think it is really interesting to think about the many things that lead someone to commit a school shooting. comes from the shittiest of shitty, lazy parent(s). Jesus, what a loathsome pair of people. As Dylan entered adolescence, he became a bit more complicated. The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, walked into Columbine High School with shotguns, automatic weapons, and homemade pipe . He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. Adding to the tragedy: Six months after Hochhalter's wounding, her mother, Carla, took her own life. Teachers did nothing. I'm sure they still live in Columbine and are active in many community functions, especially the PTA. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. In the vacuum of actual news, they just start over again. Its hard to tell. Kids hide things. Tom had a huge hobby for fixing up BMW's. It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. It would be satisfying to blame the parents. "If a person was denying it, he would say, 'One of . Though posthumous diagnosis isnt possible, that Dylan was seriously depressed is not up for debate (p. 160), and his behaviors might have also fit the criteria for other diagnoses such as avoidant personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, and/or borderline personality disorder. Not only would that give us someone to blame (someone still living, unlike Eric and Dylan, who turned their guns on themselves), but it would also allow the psychic distance between x93usx94 and x93themx94 that frightened humans crave. I knew he was off, different. I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy. Tonight, an interview with Sue Klebold, Dylan's mother, is set to air on the ABC news-magazine . By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. As his father's career pulled him out of schools and away from friends leaving Plattsburgh, New York in 1993 for Colorado Harris increasingly retreated into the computer and . As the son of a geophysicist father and a mother who worked with the disabled, his upper-middle-class upbringing and well-meaning family didn't seem like contributing factors to his eventual killing spree. The goal seems to have been parental appeasement. x93There is no comfort for parents here,x94 Cullen told me yesterday. My own experience is that my gifted teacher dragged me out of sporting events because they weren't academic enough, encouraged my teachers to assign me extra work that the other kids didn't do, and basically didn't understand teenagers, high school, or what it was like to be ostracized at all. I am with R14 and 15. Eric said his father never asked whether the caller even had the right phone number. You unterstand. Stop doing that." Few more places I can't think of now. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. Based on the end of Cullen's book, who was of course supposed to be a guest, most of them have moved on. There was a creepy thread started by a sociopathic OP a couple of weeks ago where this was discussed. I cannot have my uzzer patrons being upset. I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. Those kids were their responsibility legally. Dylan Klebold was suicidal for several years before Columbine. Tom was a geophysicist, Sue worked with handicapped people. Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". Yes, it's really terrible when there is the free-flow of information and ideas, isn't it? Now, she spends her time advocating for suicide prevention and mental health services. I'm just thinking of the argument Sue mentioned in her book where Tom was insisting that Dylan remove his baseball hat before they went for breakfast (during their visit to Arizona State University). So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. As I often do, Ill leave the author the last word on why understanding the process her son went through is important: Dylan was vulnerable in many ways unquestionably emotionally immature, depressed, possibly suffering from a more serious mood or personality disorder. Did those kids talk about this? There are a lot more R&V followers out there than you would think. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. Just three days before the shooting, he went to prom with a friend. Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. I honestly do believe (and so does mom) that his brain has been rewired primarily by a head injury he sustained when he was just toddling. I'm with VoTN on this one. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently. As a teen, Dylans aversion to embarrassment became more severe, his self-consciousness more pointed. The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . . Dylan seems to have been a very unhappy person. Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. If I didn't know that I would have done the same. That kid was born with some sort of brain injury. He was easy to raise, a pleasure to be with, a child who had always made us proud (Klebold, 2016, p. 61). It wasnt accepted.. FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. I just don't get it. Sue Klebold, whose son Dylan, 17, went on a shooting rampage with his friend Eric Harris, 18, at their high school in Colorado in 1999, . Hell, Klebold and a bunch of their friends went to the prom the weekend before the killings. His parents knew this, though not the extent of it. Virginia Tech. When he heard reports of gunmen in trench coats rampaging through Columbine High, it's reported, that Thomas Klebold (the father of Dylan) contacted authorities, because he suspected his son might be involved and offered his help as a negotiator.. Per the other Columbine thread, I'm in the midst of reading Dave Cullen's "Columbine." This week, one of them, Sue Klebold mother of shooter Dylan Klebold - breaks the silence with ABC's Diane Sawyer. In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. After college, the couple married and settled in the Denver area. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. Eric: "Susan, sorry. Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. Brooks Brown, now 31 years-old was a senior at Columbine during what was considered to be the worst school shooting in U.S. history. Her son's name became famous when in 1999 he became one of two direct perpetrators of the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history. Thank you! He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. Hi Alison, The Klebolds attorney, Gary Lozow, told The Denver Post the Klebolds had no plans to grant any other interviews. A few weeks ago, I reviewed Sue Klebolds memoir A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy, about her experience as the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine High School shooters. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. Describes how eric harris and dylan klebold approach columbine high school, in jefferson county, colorado. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed .